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« on: August 21, 2007, 02:16:35 AM »

With all of the talk about turbo EFI, I thought it might be helpful if I share some information on selecting the right turbo for your car.  They tell us, "The best way to learn something is to teach it."  While I'm not an expert on turbo systems, nor do I claim to be, I'd like to share what I've learned.   I'm sure some of you are also contemplating the move to turbo, so hopefully you'll find some benefit to this info.

Turbo manufacturers create a map for you to use to see if the particular turbo in question is a good fit for your engine.  It is much cheaper to look at turbo maps and do some math calculations than it is to buy and swap out turbos until you find the one that works well with your engine.

A turbo map looks like this:  (from Honeywell Garrett)



What the heck is all that mess? Shocked Embarrassed Undecided  Grin    Well Garrett did a good job of explaining the different areas of the map, but you need to have some data (pressure ratio (Y axis) and corrected air flow (X axis)) from your engine before this thing will do you any good.  Let's take a look at the engine that I'm going to build.  I want to have a streetable 2276 that I can crank up the boost on, and make some passes at the strip.  I figure I'll run 5-8 lbs of boost around town and 15 or so at the track with race fuel.  Let's figure out the pressure ratio for my engine first.

To figure out the pressure ratio we need to use the following formula:

Pressure Ratio = (Boost PSI + Atmospheric Pressure*) / 14.7
*Atmospheric Pressure at sea level = 14.7
Now if I substitute my numbers in there...

Pressure Ratio = (15boost + 14.7) / 14.7 = 29.7/14.7 = 2.02
That would work if I was at sea level, but I live in Las Vegas, Nevada which is at 2165 feet above see level.  To adjust for your elevation, use this chart...
Altitude (ft)
Pressure (psi)
Sea Level
14.7
1000
14.2
2000
13.7
3000
13.2
4000
12.7
5000
12.2
6000
11.8
7000
11.3

So I'm going to use the 13.7 PSI from the chart for my atmospheric pressure number.
Pressure Ratio = (15boost + 13.7) / 14.7 = 28.7/14.7 = 1.95

The next thing I need to find is my engine's airflow needs.  On the X axis on the 2nd graph we see air flow given in pounds per minute. Some compressor maps give it in Cubic Feet per Minute (CFM). To convert pounds per minute into CFM, you need to take the temperature of the air into consideration (the ideal gas law tells us that as gas heats up, it expands, which means that the hotter the gas, the less it weighs per cubic feet, which is why a hot air balloon rises). Fortunately, most compressor maps are taken at 85F (you can usually tell by looking at the formula written on the map which has a temperature number like 545 and subtracting 460 from that number to convert it to Fahrenheit). One cubic foot of air at 85F weighs 0.07282 pounds. So, at 85F, convert pounds per minute to CFM by multiplying by 13.73.

To figure out the CFM requirements of my engine in naturally aspirated mode, we need to use this formula...

CFM = Displacement in Cubic Inches / 3456 x RPM x VE
To convert from cc's to cubic inches = CC's X 0.06102 = CI's  (My 2276 x 0.06102 = 138.88)
The RPM is the Max you want to buzz your engine up to and the Volumetric Efficiency of a turbocharged VW engine is roughly 80%


So in my case...  CFM=138.88(CI's)/3456 x 5800(RPM) x 80%(VE) = 186.46 CFM
BUT since this is a boosted engine, I need to multiply my CFM x by my Pressure Ratio
186.46 x 1.95 = 363.60 CFM

No, I have one last simple calculation to do to in order to start looking at the turbo maps.  If you look the X axis on the maps are in lbs of air per minute.  To do this I'll take my CFM # and multiply it by .070.

363.60 (CFM) x .070 = 25.45 lbs/minute

So now with those 2 pieces of data about my engine, I can then decide if the turbo listed above would be a good choice for my engine.  I take my Pressure Ratio # and find it on my Y axis.  I make an imaginary horizontal line across the map.  I do the same thing with lbs/minute # and make an imaginary vertical line up the map.  I can then read the map based upon where the lines intersect.  Take a look at the attached file.  I don't know which turbo this map is for, but it's just a map that I swiped off of Garrett's website.   

As you can see the I am within the turbos efficiency rings, but it could be better.  I could try and re-run through the math and use a higher max RPM.  It may move the "crosshairs" a little further toward the center of the "islands."

I hope this information helps you.  It's pretty straight forward.  If I've had a typo or two, or made a mistake, I apologize.  It's late and I've got school in the morning. Smiley

Scott Faivre
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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2007, 01:12:23 PM »

Fantastic article Scott!

Always nice to see the more pertinent information needed in one area. This is quite a coincidence that you put this up here.

I spent some time at work the other day making an Excel spreadsheet that does all the math for you. Each section has a host of tips and as much information as I could add to keep the file size down.

I included calculators for displacement, head volume, compression ratio, pressure ratio, airflow, and airflow conversions. It's nothing spectacular, but helpful none the less. I'd like to create a table that, once all the figures are gathered, will call up a turbo map or 2 and will, more or less, select the right turbo for you. If interested, just lemme know and i'll email it to whoever.

Made with Office 2007, but should be compatible with all others, including Open Office. If there's something anybody thinks I should add, fix, or anything, lemme know. I'm working on some more stuff this weekend.

Kenney
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« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2007, 03:01:31 PM »


 Volumetric Efficiency of a turbocharged VW engine is roughly 80%

"crosshairs" center of the "islands."
Quote

How did you come up with the VE of 80%?
Do you "crosshairs"  need to be  center of  center or just center  left and right of the "islands"?

Nice read helps me out a lot.
Thanks
Zack


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« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2007, 05:39:02 PM »

The VE of 80% was something that was given to me by a few people that know engine math better than I do. Grin  Actually these guys are experienced builders that own shops and do this kind of thing for a living.  I didn't question it, but I'd love to hear some others' (with more experience than me) thoughts on that number.  I've never had anyone challenge it, and I haven't had a reason to challenge it. Tongue

As for the cross hairs, the more centered your cross hairs are in the efficiency islands, the better suited that turbo is to your engine's needs.

Hope it helps!

Scott Faivre
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« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2007, 06:15:23 PM »

It is not so much that I question it just wanted to know how you got it.   Not to say it is wrong but I will ask a few and see what they come up with.

Nice little web site yall have here

Thanks
Zack
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« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2007, 06:28:25 PM »

And you are officially the 600th member to join! Grin  Very Cool!  I encourage you to view the "Videos" section here on GP now that you are official member.  I think you'll like what you see!  (Non-members don't get to see that stuff and few other things.  Wink )

If you search for VE formulas, you can find out how they came up with that #.  Play with the math and see what you get.  I'm too tired, I just sat through a boring training that other teachers were doing in my room (I'm the computer lab teacher) and now I get to go home! Wink

Scott Faivre
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« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2007, 09:50:49 PM »

I've bookmarked a page that answered alot of the questions I had in regards to VE.

http://www.epi-eng.com/ET-VolEff.htm

Having spoken to a few engine builders (non-VW) about the engine i'm working towards, they said that without all the flow numbers and a bunch of other info, they'd guess the VW engine is around 80%. 85% is easily achievable, but it depends on which end of the scale that 80% falls into. Also, some of the purely drag engines are beyond that, generally 95% or higher depending on the class.

Read that article and it should really clear everything up. It sure helped me.

Kenney
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